Malaysia VMware Communities

25 Responses

• micronuts

  Looks like XEN from citrix are still far behind and need more efforts

• Anil

  Citrix XenServer does not support memory overcommit. You’re require sufficient physical RAM for your virtual guest.

• craig

  Xen Server can’t exchange ISO image during the Virtual Machine setup as easy as VMware. That is really painful

• Nadav

  Using Citrix Xen 5.0 Express (free as in beer) connected to a Netapp FAS or Dell Equalogic storage you can create a snapshot of a vm in a few seconds and then create a new vm from this snapshot as fast. Please don’t spread FUD! Memory over commit is not usefull in
  IO and memory intensive production environments.

• Wing Loon

  I just discovered that I can power up more than 4 VMs in Citrix XenServer Express 5.0.0 simultaneously. And, it can only allow maximum up to 3 virtual disk in one VM.

• craig

  I will suspect is due to the express edition. Really need to get an evaluation copy for enterprise to test this out

• Leong

  I having difficulty create Redhat Linux. Do u have the same issue?

  2008-06-09 3:18:49 PM Error: Creating ‘CentOS 5.1 x64′ by cloning ‘CentOS 5.1 x64′ – A timeout happened while attempting to attach a device OpaqueRef:27be456b-e28a-446f-eb5a-8171b01521a4 of type VBD to a VM

  I looked at the machine and saw the following on the console:

  xenbus dev backend/vdb/0/51712 error 2 creating vdb structure.

• superman

  Leong, I guess you’re referring to clone Centos instead of Redhat Linux. My Xen sandbox destroy sometimes ago and I have never try Centos or Redhat on Xen. Sorry.

• Leong

  hmm… Yes, I saw most of the feedback related with windows only. Thanks superman.

• vmKOKO

  Hi Nadav, Have you try ESX with “memory over commit” with DRS? Resources Priority is the key when you are consolidating or sharing. Features is not useful if you don’t know how to use. Maybe you could check with the guru — Craig.

• darkfader

  Please note the network speed displayed in connection settings is a completely random number; I don’t understand how you fell for this…
  The actual lan throughput to your lan or between vm’s on the same host might still be better than with VMWare due to paravirtualized drivers, but this is not related to those 2Gbps either. On the other hand VMWare offers a billion options for tweaking lan io that are yet unheard of in XenServer.

  One more thing: If you run any guests without host tools installed, they can cripple the IO performance of all guests using the same physical host cpu. (think 400KB/s instead of 50MB/s lan performance, for example)

  If you encounter strange performance drops that’s the first thing to check:
  Logging in via SSH, use the “top” command and check for processes that sound like “qemu-dm”. If you see any, identify any VMs without Xenserver guest tools and fix them.

  I hope this will prove a little more helpful than the other comments ;p

• sg

  XenServer (with XenDesktop) has an edge for overall desktop virtualization strategy over VMware. If you have not committed to VMware in desktop virtualization space, take look at Citrix for its Xen Desktop (desktop provisioning/management/broker) + Provisioning Server (os streaming) + XenApp (application virtualization and streaming).

  - happily running XenServer Enterprise 5.0 on a big honking box for desktop virtualization. not entirely biased towards Citrix as I have way more ESX than XenServer. Seems to me that Citrix has done a much better job in desktop space than VMware (undeniably, still leading the server virtualization space).

  

• craig

  this post is more than 6 months now and we still yet to try the new release of Xen, hopefully they had overcome most of the issues in the previous version which reduce the pain of the customer should face. I think both vmware and Xen have their advantage and depend how you would want to use it and what you try to achieve.

• Knoa IT

  Hello,

  we just created a single-server VDI infrastructure using XENDesktop. We would like to copy our VM so we can provide many instances of that VM from the Desktop group since at the moment, in a pooled situation, only one user can have access to that single desktop. However, we’re unable to copy the VM since the shutdown doesn’t work. Everytime we force a shutdown, the VM restarts itself. How can be shut it down and keep it shutdown till we restart it manually?

  Thanks
  Knoa IT

• sg

  Using Access Management Suite, right click the desktop group and modify desktop group properties – under Advanced, change the setting on “Idle Pool Settings” > “Idle Desktop Count” to “0″ for everything

  If any number greater than 0 is set on those options, XenDesktop DDC makes sure x number of desktop is started in the pool at the particular time.

  Heard of “boot storm” effect? The “Idle Pool” is a way to avoid boot storm effect as much as possible.

• sg

  Re-read the comment thread and would like to say a few things.

  Desktop virtualization is completely different from server virtualization. ask a typical server guy to design and manage a desktop infrastructure and it tends to be a disaster.

  Most of VMware enterprise features make sense for server virtualization, but just not desktop. Memory overcommit does not work for desktop virtualization and consolidation ratio is not a factor to drive desktop virtualization.

  VMware is just not a desktop company. They are way behind in desktop technologies. Just not sure when they will change that. Running with both VMware View and XenDesktop, stuff from Citrix is a lot more complete.

• craig

  I am not so sure about the product comparison you raise here, but looks like you are offended quite number of peoples around the world.

  At the end of the day, Server guy do desktop is a disaster? I am totally not agree. I been in IT for years now and I do not require a desktop support to fix my pc, laptop or even a vm images with desktop operating system. Even in my days for imaging automation, I can automate the installation for desktop and server images with all the customization require without using the GHOST Technology.

  At the same times, most of the desktop guys will ask me to help & fix the laptop or desktop for them, whenever they had no clue what went wrong. Again, I am not here to show off, but not every server guy will be the 1 as you mentioned in the comment.

• Jas

  I guess SG must be from Citrix desktop team.

• Knoa IT

  SG, no matter what they think about you, you’re our hero. thanks for the little tip. works for us.

  2nd question, how can we configure this so we are not restricted to FCFS basis on pooled desktops such that we can have multiple users get a copy of the same master image. We’d all heard about the Master copy and then images being spawned on-demand. How is that actually configured? is that by choosing “Assigned” as opposed to “Pooled”??

  3rd question: Is there a way to virtualise linux desktops? We don’t see any agent that can be installed on Linux machines, only Online plug-ins for linux machines are available in the Express Edition of the XENDesktop

  Lastly, guys, we have spoken to almost 3-5 Independant integrators who have hard-core VMWare fanatics as their chief engineers to the point where they have stickets on their laptops saying “I Heart VMWare”. Now these are guys who’s entire day job is to do virtualisation deployments, whether it be server or desktop or both and you ask them which VDI solution they prefer, and their response is XEN VDI.

• sg

  @craig
  Not sure if a technology debate worth the time to offend people. Hope not …
  All the good things you did to *legacy* desktops sound great, but:
  - at what scale? 1000, 5000, 10000 desktops?
  - strategy to tackle different use cases?

  Putting all these into a bigger picture, do you think the next generation desktop life cycle should still be the same as what you claimed “I’m a server guy who does not require a desktop support to fix my pc, laptop or even a vm images with desktop operating system …”? You just proved my point.

  @Jas
  Wished I was one of them. It’s a whole camp of brilliant folks with great ideas!

  @Knoa IT
  #2 – Not really understand what you mean by “not restricted to first-come-first-serve basis on pooled desktops …”. Pooled desktop is always FCFS. Otherwise it would be Assigned Desktop (one-to-one relationship). Do you have Provisioning Service as part of your XD infrastructure? It enables the ability to compose a dynamic desktop on-the-fly by streaming a gold image to diskless VMs.

  #3 – Linux desktop folks are out of luck. Citrix could have done great stuff on Linux environment (deliver/stream Linux apps/desktops to end point) but guess what MS is the man behind the scene. Citrix & MS are good buddies. If Citrix ever tries to step into Linux it’d be screwed big time.

  I was threw into virtualization few years back then with ESX 2.x. Now I’m still doing server virtualization but have discovered desktop virtualization is another interesting game. I don’t have a VMware sticker on a laptop. My work laptop has been taken away long time ago. Am strictly working in a virtualized environment – Citrix hosted apps + streamed apps to thin client and VDI.

• craig

  SG, Look at the number of desktop you spoke about here, is a small number compare to the number of servers and system which I had managed in my previous experience. We are talking about more than 10,000 of system globally cross region and cross country.

  Generally about system management tools, desktop are more simplify if you compare to the number of system going to be run in the data center. How much do you think a Desktop guy can understand IO requirement, compute requirement when it come to a big scale virtualization for huge number of desktop you had talked about? At the end of the day, you will still need those expertise to assist in term of sizing, planning and execution.

  You still do not understand what is the reason of not everyone will go for virtual desktop environment. Think realistically, there are a lot of users who are not suitable and require for a laptop for their day to day operation. My suggestion to you, should look at the bigger picture and do not always live yourself in the small world, there are absolutely many key pieces requirement to be in place before you can deliver the virtual desktop as you want. Or else, go back to the old days and run everything on the legacy desktop.

• Knoa IT

  hey SG (and group)

  Do you know if XEN Provisioning services and all its other components is a free piece or do we have to pay for it?

  Thanks
  Knoa IT

• sg

  @craig
  I don’t underestimate your ability to manage x number of servers across y number of regions. Didn’t say everyone should go virtual, but don’t mean it can’t be done.

  @Knoa IT
  Not free, but should be part of XD infrastructure now so you basically pay for a bundle. When i got mine XD and PVS were two separate licenses. Lot of changes in Citrix licensing so you’d better ask through your local channel. With PVS remember you are not limited to streaming image to only any VDI, but it does physical devices as well (desktop, laptop, thin client, server). Just a matter of use cases.

• Knoa IT

  Thanks again SG. I guess I need to talk to the local citrix rep. because we’re only in eval/lab mode at the moment so won’t want to pay for any licenses till we know what we’re doing with our VDI strategy. Wondering if there is an time-limited eval license available.

• sg

  @Knoa IT
  They can extend the eval for you. Just ask.

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